Timeline for Can I ask my home EU State for a duplicate licence if it has been taken by another Member State?
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| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:33 | history | edited | Relaxed | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:06 | comment | added | jaster32123 | This seems to be the correct answer - yes, I am obliged. I received a document by email today signed by the prefect informing me of this (was a case of "oops we forgot"). No article if French law was mentioned or referenced interestingly, but whatever. I still don't know what this means regarding them issuing a temporary licence valid for one year (and how thats recognised across the EU), but it doesn't change my original question - which this answer, answers. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:05 | vote | accept | jaster32123 | ||
| Feb 16, 2021 at 11:05 | history | edited | Relaxed | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 16, 2021 at 3:34 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 Most jurisdictions consider the competent authority to be that where you live. Since you no longer live in Poland, Poland is no longer the competent authority inside the jurisdiction where such rules apply. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 3:24 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 To state this bluntly, you have been found by the competent authority that you no longer 'possess qualifications which provide a sufficient guarantee of public safety.' Therefore the 'authorization given by a competent authority or by an association authorized by that authority after having shown himself on examination to be competent.' has been suspended and a new one must be issued if you want to drive again. Convention with Respect to the International Circulation of Motor Vehicles, Paris, 1909-10-11 Article 2 | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 22:04 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @MarkJohnson I wasn't able to really figure this part out. When it says: "Obligatory exchange of your driving licence in another EU country" is that also on the condition that I even want a driving licence? What if I just want to be a pedestrian for the rest of my time in France? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 20:10 | comment | added | Relaxed | Of course, the fact there is case law proves that some people really managed it (often between Germany and the Czech Republic or Germany and Austria, because Germany is very restrictive with driving license). | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 20:08 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 Yes, it would be possible. It wouldn't be legal though. That's what I called “falling through the cracks”. There is also a whole lot of case law on what others countries are allowed to do. IIRC, the gist of it is that it's really up to Poland to enforce this rule, if they don't, other EU countries have to take your Polish license at face value, they are not allowed to enforce the residence rule themselves, even if they can prove you weren't a resident in Poland at the time. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 20:00 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Relaxed Huh - so if a country doesn't need proof of residence when you are a citizen (Poland doesn't need an address to issue identity cards, for example), could I theoretically order a new driving licence from Poland to France (or wherever I will be)? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 19:25 | comment | added | Relaxed | @JonathanReez And that's why I alluded to “the kind of evidence“ required. There are countries where you do need some evidence to be able to register as a resident, even as a citizen (Germany, Netherlands…) As a counter-example, France (or, back when it was in the EU, the UK) doesn't even have a registration system, you're supposed to provide a proof of address (typically some utility bills) when applying for the license. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 19:17 | comment | added | JonathanReez | @Relaxed technically, you don't even need a place to stay as a citizen. In Czech Republic you'd simply be registered to "live" in your local municipality if you tell the government office you don't have a fixed address. There's probably a similar procedure for Poland. But yes - you do need to actually live in Poland even if you're moving around between Airbnb's/hotels for the first few weeks. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 19:11 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 It is relatively new, didn't exist the last time I needed to replace a stolen license. I assume it's being gradually rolled out, I would be surprised if updates and access was uniform across the EU. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 19:09 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Relaxed Ahh this must be new! Either way - thats fine, I'm not trying to hide what I did, I just want to get out of France and not be forced to come back just for a driving licence :P | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 19:08 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 Note that there is in fact a data exchange system on driving licences and traffic violations in the EU (RESPER/EUCARIS). | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 19:05 | history | edited | Relaxed | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:58 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 See: Voluntary exchange of your driving licence in another EU country of my previous link. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:56 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 I think I understand your confusion, I added a paragraph to explain what this exchange is about. It's not directly related to the 4-month ban and also applies for violations like speeding. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:55 | history | edited | Relaxed | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:48 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @MarkJohnson great - that sounds good. I was planning to move to a third country, Spain, not back to Poland - but I could take up residence in Poland for 6 months if need be. I hate to be that guy - but I wouldn't want to end up on some wanted list, so would you have a source that I could reference :)? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:43 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 Once you have left France permanently and taken up residence in Poland, the Polish officials will probably get confirmation that France still has your old licence and that no other was issued. Then they will properly issue a new one. As a polish resident you can then visit France using this licence. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:41 | comment | added | Relaxed | @JonathanReez Yes, it should only take a few days, if you actually move and have a place to stay/rental agreement/utiliies. The emphasis is not really on the paperwork here, it's on moving first (the OP only plans to move as far as I can tell, that's not good enough). Realistically, if you have relatives, you could also be able to fake this of course but that's another matter. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:39 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Relaxed that does make sense! How does it look if I hold off getting a licence altogether until I move? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:38 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 The switch to a French license is because you would also have penalty points, it only applies to French residents. As I explained as soon as you reside elsewhere, that wouldn't be relevant. Merely intending to do so while still living in France is not enough. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:35 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 "On French territory” is there because the ban also applies to people who reside abroad and could therefore keep or get another license. It doesn't really impact where you can request a duplicate license one or another. I mention stolen documents to make this clear: even for a stolen license, Poland is not supposed to give you a duplicate if you reside in France. Instead, they are supposed to give you a paper that you show the French authorities to get a clean license. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:03 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 A driver's licence is a residence based document. Normally when someone moves from one country to another (in the US/Canada state or province) the driver's licence must be exchanged within a certain period. Since the EU licence is uniform (issue on similar conditions), this is mostly not required (only when lost, renewed or reissued in the country you are living in). | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:49 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @MarkJohnson that's a good point - though this re-conversion seems a bit counter-intuitive to the whole directive. Then why convert in the first place :P Take a look at, for example: Article L223-10 from FR Highway Code that discusses how foreign licences acquire points. In short, the same way as a French licence would. In practice, this doesn't work, considering some countries have an additive system of up to 39 points (Bulgaria), while FR has a subtractive system from 12, and in practice, points have never been applied to my PL licence. So with that, what's actually going on? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:40 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 The fine in Poland is stricter than in France, so you might want to deal with this while your still a resident of France. After returning to Poland, you can always convert it back to a Polish one. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:36 | history | migrated | from travel.stackexchange.com (revisions) | ||
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:36 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @MarkJohnson I've looked into that directive (and I love the EU for being so clear!) - I couldn't find the equivalent though in French law: legifrance.gouv.fr/search/… It's two years that Member States have to implement this right? What's sitting not right with me, is this (by extension of this directive) obligation to stay in the country. I would happily do this whole procedure, just not in France, but seems I am locked in. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:35 | comment | added | JonathanReez | “You first need to actually move and obtain all the necessary paperwork to prove you are a resident” - wouldn’t that take a few days at most as a citizen? In Czech Republic that’s how long it takes. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:21 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 See: Driving licence exchange and recognition in the EU - Your Europe Obligatory exchange of your driving licence in another EU country 'You have to exchange your driving licence if:... You commit a traffic offence in the country where you live' | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:16 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @jwenting, Mark, I have contacted my government who have confirmed that I hold a valid licence (at least in Poland, on paper) - adding even more fuel to my confusion. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:07 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @MarkJohnson suspended for (very remorsefully on my part) drink driving - but I'm not sure how that changes much. Consider how drink-driving limits and rules differ in EU countries themselves - it's not a uniform law - where in one country I was over the limit, in another, not necessarily. The original document was issued in 2015 - my understanding is the new ones come with some sort of chip? Either way, I have served my time - and now I am pursuing the most efficient (and of course legal) way to get a licence without being forced to stay/return to France. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:58 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 Not knowing the reason why it was suspended in the first place nobody can really say. Is it maybe an older type document? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:55 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @jwenting another thing that gets me is - besides the fact that the licence was taken from me, no legal document from the administrative or judicial side talks about suspension of my licence. They only say "banned from driving on French territory for a period of 4 months", so regardless of whether I have a driving licence or not. What I don't get, is why they can't give me back my original document after the time is served, but they insist I switch to a French licence. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:52 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @MarkJohnson great - I'll ask my government then. What's this with "must switch to a French licence" all about then? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:50 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 Assume that if you don't retrieve the licence in France, that it will be sent to Poland. So don’t apply in Poland for a new licence without telling them that your previous one was suspended in France. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:49 | comment | added | jaster32123 | jwentig - "A license is suspended EU wide, so if the French authorities confiscate your Polish license, it's suspended in both release it back to you." @jwenting sure I understand; I was told my licence would NOT be returned to me, and I must do a French one (which is really another crux of my issue). This is where I am lost, because if this is the case, I must present myself at the Medical Commission in France every 6 months, effectively making any long distance permanent moves unfeasible. In essence, I don't mind doing 4 months of suspension; what I don't want, is a French licence. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:11 | comment | added | jaster32123 | Huh - what really confuses me is the wording "on French territory", suggesting that this isn't in force anywhere outside of it. If I was to go the route of applying for a new one, would the original issuing Member State issue a document that it is stolen, considering your previous paragraph suggesting that they wouldn't do it since it was suspended? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 15:52 | history | answered | Relaxed | CC BY-SA 4.0 |