We were born in Iran. Then we decided to leave this country and start living in the EU. So we left Iran with a Tourist Schengen Visa to France. After two days we left France to Germany. We're here as refugees.

We have been living here in Germany for about 4 months and 2 weeks. Now they say they're executing a rule named Dublin and they say we have to leave Germany and return to France. We don't have any family here and we want to stay in Germany. Is there a way to stay in Germany without hiring a lawyer?

  • 3
    I'll put it bluntly. This is a question of where you can live and work for perhaps the rest of your life, and, since you are seeking refugee status, about whether you will be sent back to a country where you have had to flee saying you are being persecuted. That's a matter of incredible importance. You need advice from reputable professionals, not strangers on the internet. Apr 21, 2017 at 23:31
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    You might consider one of these refugee advice centers in Germany, which publish information on their websites and provide services. They might be in a position to recommend who you should talk to if they can't assist themselves. Here's another list of possible resources. Apr 21, 2017 at 23:34
  • Are any of your family members citizens of an EU country?
    – phoog
    Apr 24, 2017 at 17:54

3 Answers 3


You really need a lawyer to deal with this. The best solution to know about your options and find a lawyer is to approach a refugee support group like the ones mentioned by Zach.

As far as your immediate situation go, you have to read the letter very carefully. Typically, what happens is that you applied for protection and the authorities have determined they might have grounds to ask another country to take charge of your application. Germany has to inform you that it's trying to use the Dublin regulation but, at this stage, you are under no obligation to leave. You can ask your lawyer to make representations on your behalf and Germany needs to wait for the French authorities to respond to its request anyway.

It's only after France accepts to take charge of your application and a decision is made that Germany will officially decline to process your application any further and may even detain you to bring you to France. You do have the right to make an appeal but, again, you really need a lawyer and even with a good one the chances of success are slim.

Unfortunately for you, France and Germany are two of the few countries where the Dublin systems still works and the facts of your case, as described in the question, do not look very promising. You really need to get in touch with someone who knows the law and local practice to navigate this situation.


Probably not

Edited: As I understand it, you want to immigrate into Europe, specifically into Germany, you had a (now expired) Schengen type C visa issued by France, you are in Germany, and you are already in contact with the authorities in Germany who want to send you back to France.

  • To immigrate into Germany, you need an Aufenthaltstitel. This could be a Schengen type D visa, an Aufenthaltserlaubnis, or a Blue Card. Getting one of those requires an application which is usually done from your country of residence. (As a tourist, you are not resident in Germany or France at this point.)
  • To get refugee status in Europe, you should have applied in the first EU country you have entered, in your case in France. This is set down in the Dublin III Regulation. Germany had temporarily stopped enforcing the Dublin Regulation for refugees who landed in Greece or Italy and marched north, but these people generally had not been registered along the route. Your arrival in France has been registered.

If Germany has already notified you that they want to apply the Dublin rules, staying in Germany will be difficult. A lawyer might be able to help, but probably not. As a refugee, you get no choice which European country is going to take you.

  • We haven't any relatives in Germany. What do you mean by proper visa? What kind of visa? By normal process you mean that we have to leave Germany?
    – Ali Gerami
    Apr 21, 2017 at 23:27
  • Have you read the regulation? It's a widespread myth that it says people must apply here or there but in reality it does no such thing. The way it works is that after applying in Germany, Germany may ask France to “take back” a refugee who applied in France before (as shown by an Eurodac entry) or “take charge” of a person. The condition for a take charge request is that France must be the country most responsible for the entry (in that case it would be the country that issued the visa). It's certainly not always the country where the person entered.
    – Gala
    Apr 22, 2017 at 5:35
  • In practical terms it means two things: (1) The OP hasn't been granted any status yet and (2) they have applied for protection in Germany. So it makes no sense to write that they are seen as refugee in Germany while at the same time maintain they have to apply in France. Neither of these things are true at this stage.
    – Gala
    Apr 22, 2017 at 5:39
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    Which is it? If the OP hasn't lodged a formal application, there cannot possibly be a Dublin request about them. But if they are getting their status evaluated, it means they have already lodged an application (which directly contradicts the notion they could not do it in Germany). The question implies they are in the latter situation but your answer is inconsistent with that and still incorrect about the way the Dublin regulation works. There is no obligation to apply in the first EU country you reach. Just google Dublin III and start reading!
    – Gala
    Apr 22, 2017 at 6:43
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    To sum up and hopefully clarify things: There is no obligation to apply in a specific country and, conversely, nothing preventing the country where you apply to consider your request if they want to. What there is is a system for countries to ask other countries to take care of some applications. Even if it was working as intended (which it does not), it's far less systematic than you make it sound. And it's not about the country you entered first but about the country that played the biggest role. If you enter Germany directly with a French visa, it would probably still try a Dublin request.
    – Gala
    Apr 22, 2017 at 6:53

Is there a way to stay in Germany without hiring a lawyer?

I believe you are unlikely to succeed in your aim without employing a lawyer.

In EU document Country responsible for asylum application (Dublin) it says

The Dublin Regulation establishes the Member State responsible for the examination of the asylum application. The criteria for establishing responsibility run, in hierarchical order, from family considerations, to recent possession of visa or residence permit in a Member State, to whether the applicant has entered EU irregularly, or regularly.

If one country receives disproportionate numbers above and beyond that reference (over 150% of the reference number), all further new applicants in that country would (regardless of nationality) be relocated, after an admissibility verification of their application, across the EU until the number of applications is back below that level.

The Dublin IV proposals are intended in part to

discourage abuses and prevent secondary movements of the applicants within the EU, in particular by including clear obligations for applicants to apply in the Member State of first entry and remain in the Member State determined as responsible. This also requires proportionate procedural and material consequences in case of non-compliance with their obligations.

As you can see from commentary to other answers, this is a legal minefield which most people would find difficult to navigate without professional experienced help.

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